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So over in the Raleigh forum... 
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Post Re: So over in the Raleigh forum...
dp, u have completely misconstrued this situation

first, i don't believe Grendel doesn't like u…this dislike is yours for reasons that are personal and seem petty…i haven't seen him disrespect u anymore than u disrespected him…u did call him a bigot, right? with no grounds and never having met him

no one i know here dislikes u that i know of

anyway, this is what you're missing…if u post on any forum, it's open to anyone to respond whether u, me or anyone likes it or not..if u just want a limited number of responses then PM those people :idea:

EVERYONE on the board appreciates your generosity supporting the site…u stepped up and not only did the Admin job but kept it afloat financially with a big outlay…now u are burnt, but also feeling entitled like any patron with management clout…

my suggestion is to step aside and let someone else handle the site bc you're sick of it…and u shouldn't have to put another penny in forever or quite some time, whichever u choose…you've more than paid your share…i've only chipped in twice…i am willing to chip in again in cash to whomever does it…have the new Admin pm me with an address when the time comes and i will chip in what i can

this forum is more free-wheeling …as it should be…if we can't bust balls here, what fun is that?

no one's been called more names than i have been here…couldn't care less…my only rule is don't put words in my mouth, but there's nothing i can do about that…it comes with the territory

:chillpill:


Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:23 pm
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Post Re: So over in the Raleigh forum...
Let's just say that I see it differently and I'm not going to argue about it anymore.

I actually went to a small meeting last night with Ben Jealous, who's running for Governor here. Nina Turner was there and spoke also. Two big Bernie backers. Anyhow, he had a really smart point about today's incredibly divisive culture, and quoted Dr. King when people asked about how to deal with evil internet personalities/trolls.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that."

He implored people to recognize that beneath the hate filled bluster of most Trumpers, racists, and other bigots - there are just people who are generally good people and may be stuck in their own hate/anger, or horribly misinformed, or just got duped, etc. He said it was key to moving the civil rights movement forward and that if King had taken the path of matching hate with more hate, then he wouldn't have made the impact he did on our society. He said if you want to actually change the way people think, that you won't do that by simply pointing out what's wrong with it. All that will do is make people defensive and crawl deeper into their bunker. And he also said that very little comes from internet discussions because people hide behind their keyboards, sort of how people yell all sorts of crazy shit at people while driving but would never do so face to face.

So as I ingest that thought into my own world, and couple that with my previous epiphany that you'll never change anyone's mind over the internet, I started thinking that my only reason for posting on here was to lash out at ignorant jerks, who likely only believe half of what they say on here anyways and will never engage in earnest debate with an open mind. The internet just isn't the place where that happens and I was being naive to think otherwise. It should have dawned on me when it took 3 pages of threads just to get you to admit that we shouldn't elect a pedophile into the senate. Or when Grendel saw the events in Charlottesville where a girl got murdered in the streets by a Nazi, but chose to come on here and yell and scream about the violent left, suppression of free speech and whether or not they had a permit to counter protest (somehow that was more offensive than the murder?)...yea, at that point it should have dawned on me that I wasn't discussing things with honest, open minded people.

My own personal failing here is that I hate losing, I'm super competitive. So I have a hard time letting things go when I know that they are wrong or someone is trying to twist a point into something it's not. That ends up dragging discussions out ad nauseum and ultimately devolving them into arguments instead of discussions. I'm just too straight up, I don't have a lot of BS in me, and I'm ill equipped to handle this type of weird social environment. So I'm just gonna point stuff out occasionally that I find interesting, and maybe if left to your own devices you'll learn something from it now and again if your not forced to admit it, or maybe not, but I'm not going to push on it to find out nor am I going to get into some back and forth about it trying to defend one point vs another.

My preference would be to just shut the forum down, but figured I just need to stay disciplined and if others want to have at it, go for it.


Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:06 pm
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Post Re: So over in the Raleigh forum...
well, u are super-competitive, i have learned that much!

seems very hard for u to process that other people have different values and priorities and life experiences…very different mindsets

that's just the way it is…and always will be…even with the internet

EVERY person on this planet is here very briefly, knows very little, sees a very thin slice of life…so no one can get on their high horse

i'm not as close-minded as u believe…the other night i watched a long, well-done documentary about the Freedom Riders…why would i watch that if i was a bigot out to deprive other people of their civil rights? that said, i don't flow with the arrogant "progressive" crowd on all matters…i don't label people bc of what they momentarily say or take it out of context...

most of the time u seem to have a sense of fair play, but for some baffling reason, u haven't extended it to Grendel, who seems like a solid, good person

my suggestion is don't go back n forth here bc it upset u…if u want to get rid of the forum, put it to a vote…if more want it shut down than kept, shut it…no problem


Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:23 pm
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Post Re: So over in the Raleigh forum...
I don't view you as a bigot Gib, never have. Others have accused you of it and I never agreed. Backed you on private PM's even.

We all have flaws, I'm no exception. I see yours as being ultra stubborn and unable to shift your POV even when presented with significant contrary evidence. But, the only way I know you is through the internet, and I definitely understand not to project internet personalities on to real people. So who really knows?

I have no problem at all understanding that there are other priorities and life experiences. And none of it bothers me in real life, like I've said a hundred times the majority of people in my life are conservatives, just as I thought I was many years ago. What gets me, what i just can't handle or deal with well at all, is lying or being purposefully ignorant just to avoid having to admit being wrong. If everyone were just man enough to have real open dialogue and be fully willing to adjust perspectives and admit fault as new information came in, the world would be a much, much better place. But most people are pussies IMO. Hiding behind internet boards, news feeds that reinforce whatever perspective they want to clutch to, guns, or whatever other protective devices they have between the outside world and their vaginas.


Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:40 pm
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Post Re: So over in the Raleigh forum...
Grendel wrote:
dplank wrote:
I leave him alone and have asked he leave me alone. I could click a button and ban him, but I don't, I just asked for him to leave me alone. For whatever reason he can't, so I just decided any time he trolls me uninvited I'm just going to delete it. All he has to do is not troll me directly, and there won't be an issue. Don't speak unless spoken to sorta thing.

No issues on the other forum. I'm not "censoring" anything except for personal attacks.

:


Ok. I guess I missed it. Please show me where you asked me to leave you alone (legit question)?

Additionally, please explain how I should engage (or not) in threads where you are pontificating with others (besides yourself only) if I should feel the desire to do so without offending your easily frustrated sensibilities?

Respectfully,

Grendel


Just a couple threads down...and you responded to it, so I know you read it but I just let you have the last word...

dplank wrote:
So let's just go back to ignoring each other in this forum. I have no problem with it and would just ask that you stop poking to get a reaction that you then don't like.

Feel free to have the last word, I'm sure you will. :arrow: :oops:


Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:55 pm
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Post Re: So over in the Raleigh forum...
well, i'm no angel…i have used slurs toward most groups, kidding around…in person, i try to deal with every human being fairly, as i like to be treated…win/win is my way…and as an evolving / devolving individual on their own journey with different strengths and weaknesses... like we all have…a single part of the ONE human race even though the cultures and histories are very different

i just don't see where u come off calling Grendel a bigot bc he doesn't care for leftist, anarchist Antifa thugs?…i can't stand those punks either…but i'm not going to waste my time going anywhere near their foolish activities

i ignored the chaos in Carolina bc i was on a trip and i knew it wouldn't end well…crazies on both sides that aren't there to do anything beneficial, but make themselves feel good…CNN did a clip on one exception…a black dude that had about 40 some KKK outfits given him by ex-Klan people that quit their association with the KKK, bc he civilly engaged with them, keeping his cool at rallies, exposing them to a black person with courage and poise…he didn't go there and scream obscenities and threaten bodily harm like Antifa would…that was also why the Freedom Riders succeeded…they kept their cool and protested non-violently while being savagely beaten by thugs with Jim Crow police support

Grendel specifically disavowed the marching supremacists, so i don't get why u believe he is out there messing with people's civil rights

i change my mind all the time about football and life…but i do it when i decide to, not when i'm told to


Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:05 pm
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Post Re: So over in the Raleigh forum...
Gibron wrote:
i change my mind all the time about football and life…but i do it when i decide to, not when i'm told to



And that, is precisely my point. I'm sure your a more reasonable person than you portray on an internet board, but when confronted aggressively with new facts here you cling harder to your POV. I pride myself on being open minded, and I go out of my way to announce it to all when something has struck me and caused me to rethink my position (see the Gun Control debate where Iggy educated me on something I didn't know). But even as hard as I try, I fall into the same trap myself and let something that offends me dictate my next response - foolish.

The fact is that the internet is a bad medium to have complex, nuanced discussions.

Regarding the other charge...why is it that everyone pretends that there's no racists around whenever the subject comes up in group conversation? How many serious racists do you think exist in this country as a percentage...25%? More? Even if we go low, you can assume 1 in 4 people are pretty racist. So that would mean that odds are we have a couple pretty hardcore racists on this very board. People for some reason have a block here, they just refuse to acknowledge it.

So specific to Grendel, how in the hell do I know? I don't of course, we've never even met in person! For all I know Grendel is the greatest, sexiest, most awesome guy alive and if we met we'd fall madly in love and leave my wife to spend my life with him. lol...but anyhow, all I know is what I see here. And unlike others, I don't assume no one here is a racist, I assume there are a couple racists lurking on this board somewhere, because that's just the odds - it would be unusual if there weren't any. I wasn't looking for it, and it wasn't one post that did it. He didn't come out and declare it obviously. But you have to read between the lines just a bit, over a handful of threads, and it's kinda right there to see. Somewhere between the support of Nazi's right to free speech and the lack of support for black lives matter protesters right to free speech. If you keep saying things that align with what racists would say, eventually someone's going to think you're a racist.

For example, if I were a shrink and I showed you four index cards with this written on them, and asked you to identify which of these things bothers you the most:

Card 1: People marched in the streets to protest the removal of confederate statues
Card 2: Other people gathered to counter protest
Card 3: A Nazi murdered a 24 year old girl by running her over with his car on purpose
Card 4: Counter protestors marched without a permit

Now, if your answer is anything other than Card 3, you might be a racist.


Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:51 pm
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Post Re: So over in the Raleigh forum...
No offense I do appreciate the work done on this site but this kind of shit is why I rarely post anymore.

People can't disagree without it devoting into a shit show it's a direct reflection of our society now.

Just my 2 cents please don't yell at me

And i did preface it with no offense :)


Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:26 pm
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Post Re: So over in the Raleigh forum...
Yea agreed, I’m going to stop being part of the problem...


Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:51 pm
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Post Re: So over in the Raleigh forum...
Respectfully, the problem with deleting posts is that we all have to take your word for it that they are out of line. If they were left to stand and Grendel was out of line there would be plenty of people who would stand up and say so. It is censorship dP anyway you slice it. If you have a problem with someone saying something you don't like the answer isn't to silence or censor them. If he's truly being a jerk, we are aware enough to realize it.

I got into a big fight with the late great Beardude over this when someone posted something I thought was out of line in the quotes that used to circulate up top. RIP 'dude. 8-)


Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:12 am
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